David Robinson
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August Play Day CancellationI would just like to let the commitee and directors know how dissapointed I am (and others) at the cancellation of the August Playday.
I understand that the quary has been slightly modified, so I have taken the time to visit the sight and in my opinion the site changes do not justify the cancellation of such a prestigious event for the club.
I do not see how the cancellation can be taken by the commitee and directors. I await a full explanation from the commitee and directors, which should give clear justified reasons to the members you represent. 
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Mat Hutchinson
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Re: August Play Day CancellationTotaly agree with you David.
I canot see how the committee members could have reached this decision.
A plausible explanation to their members is required.
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TANGO
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PLAY DAYWELL WHAT A BUNCH OF PRATTS badlrc look now cancel the playday whith little if any notice . has anybody actually seen the site and has anybody really thought about the possible implications of such a decision. I doubt it the club now look like fools they have as dr has said have let down the members without little or any consideration to the true cost and fall out of there actions. The question of how many renew
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billtitley
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playday cancellationAs I understand it, we would not have been allowed to drive on ANY area that has been worked on, thus meaning that in effect we had no access, the only place we could camp is in the field opposite, that being the case, where would you propose that visitors park? The only access to the actual off road area is to immediatley turn right as you come through the gate right by the sheep dip. Some people come with lorries, some with trailers, where are they parking? If it rains the field opposite would be a mud bath, as it does not drain well. When somebody comes off site for a brew etc, they would have to cross to the already overcrowded field leaving mud on the road getting us in trouble AGAIN. There are as you know several times when i disagree with the committee, but this is not one of them, to cancel at short notice is very dissapointing, but as the owner started to modify the site two weeks ago without even advising us, and on challenging apparently had an attitude of "tough", and if you go on the modified area you will be in trouble, what would you the "experts" do to resolve it?
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David Robinson
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Playday cancellation.I do not want to get personal, just would like a justifiable explanation. Your comments starting,"as i understanf it" gives me the impression you have not been to site and are only repeating what you have been told.
I have spoken to other comitee members who have been to site, and believe the site is viable and at least worth a go. This club seems to stall at the lowest of hurdles.
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hoppitpegleg
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As a relatively new member to the club(and even newer to this inter-web thingy) I feel I`ve got to add my penny worth of whingeing. One or two of you might have noticed my pleas for help on these pages, I`m new to Landrovers and to be honest not much use with a set of spanners either! My user-name on this forum might give ya a clue to the fact that my legs, having been smashed in an accident, aint up to much either. I`ve been sorting out all those little problems on the ORANGE 4 WHEELED BITCH, so that I can enjoy the play day without breaking AGAIN. I`ve already said.....not very good with spanners, knackered legs, that usually equates to everything I do taking twice as long as it would someone else, on top of that it usually hurts a lot too!!! Then its cancelled at the last minute....WONDERFULL!!! I`m not gonna start calling individual members because I believe club officials do a great job for very little or no reward, BUT....... Why was there no communication between the land owners and the club prior to the event, surely the owner was gonna let us know, wasn`t he? From what I`ve heard someone passed by the site and saw the work that had been done then contacted a club official. What if that member hadn`t passed by and noticed the problem, would there have been no contact between the club and the site owner prior to the event? Also as I understand the play day raises a considerable revenue for the club that I would imagine is a much needed source of income, who`s gonna compensate the club for their losses? As far as I`m concerned this land owner needs to be taken into one of the darkest, dirtiest corners of the site and for several of the members to forcibly insert various LARGE Landrover spares into his rectal cavity....... Failing that is the club gonna sue his ass for the loss of revenue?  
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billtitley
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cancelled playdayDitto to having conversations with committee members plus have seen photos that have been emailed to me. if you have been to playdays, you will know that if it rains, the normal point of entry to actual off road area is almost impossible to negotiate to vehicles with standard road tyres, i personally have seen people being towed on; the point being, the entry to off road area would need to be nearer the gate, which is a steeper climb which would put vehicles immediately at right angles to deep ruts even if they make the climb; remember, we do not all drive vehicles with big nobbly tyres, which brings in a serious safety issue for novices driving diagonal to deep ruts trying to turn either left or right with the possibility of a roll over, remember how Steve Campbell rolled a few years ago, and he is experienced.
On the subject of finance, we struggle (apparently) to make these playdays pay anyway, but more important is our reputation for a very well organised safe event, i feel that it would have been a fiasco doing a lot more harm to our reputation with an increased risk of injury.
I wonder when you saw the sight, cos they had made a start on the Sunday which is when Michelle, my daughter saw it and duly reported, by the Monday they had dug a lot more as seen in the photos from later in the week.
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David Robinson
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Playday cancellationNothing personal Bill, but I think we need a member of the directors or commitee to justify the cancellation. I agree with hoppitpegleg, the commitee do a great job, I was all for volunteening to join the commitee next year, but now have my doubts about the way things are run. We have a democratic system, voted members on a commitee who represent the general club members, (bit like the house of commons) we than have a group of directores, not sure who voted them in, they seem to be the people who cancelled this event (a bit like the house of lords) may be we need a big shake up at the top. The democratic bit does not seem to work. There seems to be a lot of decisions made behind the commitees backs or in little commitee clicks 
Anyway, you wont have to pay your £10 parking this weekend. LOL.
What next!
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shell
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I feel that everyone is aiming this disappointment at the wrong people. It should not be aimed at the committee/directors of the club but at the landowners. It was me that found that work had commenced on the site and then informed a committee member who later viewed it and informed other committe members. In the time from me passing on the sunday morning and others viewing that evening a large amount of work had been done. I then went past on the following Saturday where even more work had taken place. It is extremly disappointing that the decision has had to be made to cancel the event but this was not done lightly and is the right decision. I am all for the public playdays and actually arrange my shifts around these so that I am able to attend and even when I am working the bank holiday I attend between shifts, however, they need to be safe! There is no way that with the site the way that it is that is is safe to run this event. The size of the camping field that is left will allow room for the toilets, burger van and marquee and not anything else. The club already has issues with the local community and council about mud etc on the road and I feel that if the bank holiday weekend went ahead then we are inviting more serious accidents both on site and on the A515. (I have attended to too many people as a result of accidents already at events!)
People need think realistically and keep safety as paramount.
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David Robinson
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playday cancellationI agree Safety is paramount. I propose that the clubs main objective for next year is to stop all landrover events that are not held on Tarmac. No one wants to get hurt, or see anyone get hurt, but surely that is part of the thrill of offroad driving. If not then lets shut it all down.
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shell
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I feel that you are taking this to the extreme, yes everyone is aware that off roading comes with an element of danger but should we not try to protect the public as much as possible? We have a large number of novices attending the playdays and having a very limited area for everyone to play increases the risks, do we really want to feel responsible for this when it is clear that the site is not safe in its current state?
Your comment about tarmac is not at all helpful.
Our responsibility as a club is to provide as best a service as possible! This is NOT achievable!
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David Robinson
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Playday cancellationI am not interested now, not going to respond.
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Mat Hutchinson
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Re: playday cancellationI'm afraid i don't yet own a Landrover but have been a member for a couple of years and attended many events as a spectator. I have been impressed by the members "never say die" attitude and there freindliness.I have seen members change a "diff" in a snowdrift and canibilise parts from another members road vehicle just to "keep them going". Members have rallied round to jack a car off a rock on Stanage Edge.Surely you are better than this!
Problems with the Quarry will either be managed on the day or taken onboard for consideration with regard to future events. I'm sure there are enough experienced members to ensure safety is made paramount.
This is not a rocky cliff you are faceing just a new landowner with different views. Adapt and overcome is the LandRover way as i see it.
Please do not burst my bubble!!
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hoppitpegleg
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Neither do I think members should be having a go at commitee members when clearly its the land owner who`s to blame in this instance. Safety must be the no. 1 priority, there`s always someone ready to file a claim these days. The question is(and if it`s not it should be) Why did the land owner not see fit to inform the club of these changes? I`m new to the club, I don`t know what sort of relationship the club has with the owner. Is there some "history" behind this move? Its not just BADLRC that use this site, I`ve looked on the notts lrc web site, they use this site too. Does this mean that events at Hartington are gonna be permenantly off the calendar, and if not what assurances can the land owner give that we wont be forced to cancel future events. If the club IS forced to cancel future events at short notice, as already pointed out by an earlier posting on this forum "WE`RE GONNA LOOK A PROPER BUNCH OF PLONKERS"
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Mat Hutchinson
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) Why did the land owner not see fit to inform the club of these changes?
Because the land owner did not see it as a problem!!
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hoppitpegleg
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In light of Mat`s answer to the question I asked "Why didn`t the land owner inform the club" It seems that some people appear to be of the opinion that these changes would be of little or no consequence and should not have affected the safe running of the play day. I`m gonna say f**k all for now.... I`ve not seen what`s been done. What I am gonna do is have a drive to the site tommorrow and have a look for myself. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don`t let this turn out to be another victim of "health and safety" gone mad brigade......
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TANGO
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PLAY DAYwell folks we have a can of worms here. what I and probably a number of other dissapointed members would like to know is when the decision to cancel this event how many of our "superb committee members" had visited the site before the decision to cancel the event was made. and be men/women and own up to it. Also how can they make an informed judgement from photos as yet i am unaware of a 3d commercially available camera. how can a safety decision be made if a full and complete assessment be made without the proper visit of the site. Where as the landowner has a question or two to answer i think the committee have a lot more. I am sorry to say but they now look inept and they seem to have washed there hands of any response. no disrespect Bill but you are not a member of the committee so no matter how much you try and justify the actions of the committee it carries little or NO significance We want answers
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TANGO
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play dayhealth and safety oh what a buzz we all get from that eh!!!! i have visited the site hoppittleg hope doris is well the site is perfectly workable the whale back is iffy but that can be fenced off as they do with the knife edge problem solved!!!!
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Mat Hutchinson
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Nice one hoppit the proof is in the pudding.
Not saying it's ideal but worth a go that's all.
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hoppitpegleg
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TANGO!!! How are you sir? DAPHNE is now very well thank you. Either she or myself have been being a bit of a twat over the last couple of weeks, me being a bloke , its obviously not me being silly.....so I`m putting the blame firmly at the feet of an inanimate object!!! As I said earlier I`m gonna have a run over to the site in the morning, I`m no health and safety expert but I do have some common sense and i REALY REALLY hope the fun police aint paid us an un-welcome visit...  
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MrHT
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As a commite member all I'm going to say is this whole thing has been a debalcle (thats assuming i've spelt it right but I think you catch my drift)
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Mat Hutchinson
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Thats "Debacle" Mr learned committee member Sir!
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hoppitpegleg
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Further to Tango`s post "play day"; This (the forum)is an ideal place for the committee to explain to the members the reason behind the decision to cancel the play day. Can I take it from what Tango has said that no members of the committee have taken the time to come on here and defend the decision or explain the thoughts behind that decision? I`m not having a go so don`t all jump down my throat, I hardly know any of the committee members when I meet em never mind here when they`re here using user-names. BUT.....If they aint, and they aint made every effort to resolve the problems before calling the event off, then we as members should be asking some serious questions!!!!!
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TANGO
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Hi Mick sorry to call daphne doris i forgot that i was doris not you. any how all engine over heating sorted but the play day over heating seems to set to run. i like the cut of your jib there mat i am one for a touch of sarcasm myself. the fun police seem to be in our midst and seemingly one has joined our chat if only fleetingly. one only hope the word gets around of our dissgruntlment (help mat) but i doubt there ever will be a full and complete response and justifiable explanation 
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TANGO
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And may i also say MrHT if we can go to the school play ground YOU LOT STARTED IT 
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Mat Hutchinson
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Thats "Disgruntlement" It's definition means pissed off members from decisions made by the committee.
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TANGO
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[quote="Mat Hutchinson"]Thats "Disgruntlement" It's definition means pissed off members from decisions made by the committee.[/quote
here here
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hoppitpegleg
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Yeah I`ll go with pissed off too.....but only a "provisional" pissed off cos I aint been and looked...YET. But when I have been and taken a look if it looks like the fun police are in our midst one things for sure, I`ll certainly be opening my mouth and asking questions.....
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billtitley
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playday cancellationHoppitpegleg,
i was told last night that the field opposite cannot have caravans on cos the entry nearest site rips arse out of them, and the gate on the Ashbourne side of field is JUST wide enough to get a Landrover in.
So when you view with open mind, please fit 15 to 20 caravans in the area available keeping 10 foot between them plus the wheel wash area, plus a marquee and scrutineering area, plus a butty wagon. Without the caravans you have no scrutineers, as not everybody lives 5 minutes away, with set up day plus 2 days of playday, that would be 3 days marshalls would have to travel to and from the site to home. There is a limit to what people are prepared to do bearing in mind the cost of fuel.
If you can come up with sensible solutions, then although sadly it is too late, it would give us members info to fire at the committee; if you can give a practical well thought out solution to demonstrate a wrong doing then i am sure your efforts would be appreciated by all even if it is just to learn from mistakes.
I repeat an earlier post that i made, REMEMBER, we are NOT ALLOWED on any area that has been dug. GOOD HUNTING
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billtitley
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OOPS, i meant to say we would have no marshalls, not scutineers
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billtitley
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OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!! there are 2 R's in scrutineer
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hoppitpegleg
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Good morning Bill, you`re an early bird aint ya....I`m just setting off for the site but thought I`d say before leaving that I`m in no way looking to get into an argument over this. I`ve been on committee`s myself in the past(national bird club, nowt to do with Land rovers) and I realise what a difficult position being a club official can put you in. As I`ve already said, I totally agree in that safety is paramount and in these days where litigation seems to be the norm, more so than taking responsibility for YOUR OWN SAFETY,and must remain so. I`ve got to go for my own sake, once I`ve got a bee in my bonnet I`m the sort that can`t just let it go. It`ll probably end up I`m one of the few members that agree with the decision...... I`ll clearoff now and go have a look, watch this space.
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hoppitpegleg
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I`ve just got back from Hartington quarry...... WHAT A F**K UP!!! The small area thats left available for camping and parking of members trucks/trailers is woefully inadequate. I can also see that using the opposite field for camping would also be ill advised, not only would the amount of mud being taken on to the highway have been an issue but the safety I believe would have been an issue too. Members more than likely would not spend the entire day on the play area, wanting to return to the camping area for hot drinks/meals throughout the course of the day. The access to the play area looked a tadge daunting too( well to me anyway) through a good sized hole and as stated across deep ruts. Again, as already stated, not every vehicle will be fitted with M/T tyres. there will be trailers and trucks bringing non road legal vehicles, to carry on regardless and to have held the event, in my opinion, would have been a bad idea. So..... I agree, it was right to cancel. But... I`d like to be parked up in a lay-by near to the site over the course of the weekend just to see how many people turn up still. The event`s been advertised in the Land rover mags, I think people from outside the area are gonna show up and the club`s gonna be made to look like chumps. I think members frustration should be aimed at the land owner and not the club, who I think have been well and truly shafted by the said land owner... 
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hoppitpegleg
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PS I did ask on the TYRO forum but I`ve not got any reply..... Whats gonna happen re the TYRO? Are there any plans to fit one in on another date. Myself and Kay really enjoyed it last time and were looking forward to another go.
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billtitley
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Cor blimey, somebody who does not talk out of a south pointing orofice.
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billtitley
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Tyro as i understand is cancelled cos a licence has to be applied for, licence already in place for quarry is i believe is not transferable. Rumour has it, there is an emergency committee meeting tonight, love to be a fly on wall, resignations, finger pointing and pistols at dawn are on the agenda.
My great concern is the future of the club, the quarry has long been the focal point, where, for example can a public play day be held without trying to encourage the public to travel miles on tight country lanes, miles from anything; i believe that we need to stop squabling and urgently rally round the club/committee to find a solution.
Mr Mellor senior or junior has signed up this morning, so i know they are reading this, and hope they are very happy with their lot, and have a happy life with the quarry,after all we were only one of their longest standing loyal customers.
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hoppitpegleg
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So.......Mr Mellor Jnr or Snr have signed up eh!! I take it they`re the land owners? Well I hope everyone who uses this forum takes the time to give them the slagging off that they deserve. They by their lack of thought and total disregard for anyones interest bar for their own, have spoilt a great weekend for a lot of people. They do appear to show though, a total lack of fore thought also. Many many small companys are going to the wall in these tough economic times, service and leisure industy being amongst the worst hit. SHOULD someone with more time on their hands than is good for them make it their little personal project to let potential users of the service/site aware of how they`ve been treated, and word got around that just cos you`ve booked doesn`t mean you will actually be able to hold your event....... I would have thought that a bussiness who operated like that would soon find themselves struggling. Isn`t it a small world, every Landrover nut seems to know everyone else in their area who`s ever even THOUGHT about buying a Landrover......and don`t they all talk a lot!!! Then you`ve got to think about the vindictive and criminal element involved in the Landrover scene( not that this club would entertain such types I`m sure) gosh! I wouldn`t want to upset those types by ruining their weekend, I bet some of those chaps could get up to all sorts of tricks that could become a bit of a nuisance over a period of time...... Ah well. I`m glad I dont set out to go upsetting people...... 
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billtitley
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hoppitpegleg,
and there was me thinking you are a fair minded person, yep you and i and loads of people are angry, but i cannot let you make suggestions like this. Sure, there is nothing wrong in telling people what the land owners have done, indeed, i will not miss any opportunity myself and am happy to urge others to do same, but your suggested actions of others is not in keeping with the excellent reputation of the club.
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hoppitpegleg
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Oh no I think you`ve misunderstood..... I myself do not condone in any way shape or form acts of a criminal nature. I like youself would strongly advise anyone considering such actions to think again. All I`m saying is that there is that element involved in the Landrover scene, as there is in all walks of life. If I were the land owner I wouldn`t be sleeping that well at night knowing that I`d pissed off a large number of people, I would have stopped and considered the consequences of my actions before implementing them....... But I s`pose you`ve gotta do what you`ve gotta do to make a buck and bugger those who you tread on whilst doing so!!! I`m sure no one from the club would be silly enough to sully the clubs reputation by even suggesting such actions.
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hoppitpegleg
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I understand from posts on this forum that there`s been an emergency committee meeting tonight, has anyone any info they can share with the members? I do hope no officials have been encouraged to "fall upon their sword" and throw the towel in as it was suggested may happen. They deserve the full backing of the members, they didn`t dig up the site did they........
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David Robinson
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Playday cancellationThere has been a lot of misunderstanding about the cancellation of the playday. Whether or not we as individuals believe the playday site is usable is not the issue. I may not agree with its cancellation but fully accept the decisions of the commitee. The issue is that the commitee did not cancel the event, it was cancelled by a small number of directors who bullied through the decision in a none democratic way without consultation with all of the commitee members especially the chairman, who i beleive was just told the event was cancelled. His (the chairmans) efforts to hold an emergency meeting were dismissed. My request for a justifiable reason for this cancellation was to highlight this management/commitee issue and to try to stop this none democratic decision making happening again. The future of this club requires a more modern open approach which I believe is the intention of our current chairman.
I do not think anyone should or fall on a sword for this, however I do believe some of the commitee are dissatisfied with the way this has been handled to the extent that they do not see any value in remaining on the commitee. The problem is that the people who think this is wrong are the type of people we need to stay on the commitee, Its the ones who are happy to let this none democratic decision making to continue are the ones we need to change.
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David Robinson
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playday cancellationIn an attempt not to get personnal as I said in my earlier communication, I do take offence at Bills comments about south pointing orifice, We are all entitled to our comments on this forum. I will however take this comment up with him face to face next time we meet.
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David Robinson
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PLay day cancellation.I do believe that digging up the site to include a moto cross track will prevent the owners from holding future events once peak parks find out.
However, it is their land and this was possibly the last time we would have been allowed to use it. I suspect any future motor sports there may be unauthorised. we will just have to wait and see.
I spoke to the new owner whilst he was doing the modifications and he said that one of his main reasons for building a motocross track was, that after the last landrover meeting (not BADLC) used the site the field was totally rutted thus stopping the owner and his friends using their bikes safely. Thererfore he chose ( maybe naively) to protect some of his land for his use.
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Mat Hutchinson
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Re: playday cancellationWOW!!...... Do you think i should buy a Suzuki 4 x 4 instead!
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The Committee
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Playdays CancellationWe regret that due to major re development of Hartington Quarry, at such short notice, The committee unanimously decided that the playdays on the 30-31st August 2009 have been cancelled.
The Committee
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